Danny and Derek welcome back Stephen Wertheim, senior fellow in the American Statecraft Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, to discuss his new article in Foreign Affairs, “The Crisis in Progressive Foreign Policy”. They discuss DC’s rhetoric around Ukraine, the schisms within “progressive” foreign policy, Joe Biden and Taiwan, and more.
The back-and-forth about maximalist and pie-in-the-sky arguments was interesting. Though it was mostly an argument about arguments, Stephen’s reformist and Danny’s radical strategies reveal the different understandings behind each. To me, Stephen’s idea depends on the belief that the institutions that will carry out this winding down of America’s involvement are capable of doing so, both American and European - Danny’s that they are not. I don’t share Stephen’s belief, but his strategy is very easy to imagine, Danny’s not so much but I am in favor of it. I am but a simple man but I would like to understand some of the nuts and bolts of the MIC and what opportunities there are for dismantling it.
Re: 90's military interventions, don't forget Somalia. Not our finest hour militarily, yet highly romanticized and propagandized in film (Black Hawk Down).
I enjoyed this with Wertheim whom I'd read and seen before. Good guest.
No one has explained why Ukranian independence is critical to the national security of the US. A Ukraine dominated by Moscow would be just as irrelevant to our security as a free Ukraine. Wertheim says we should arm Ukraine under impossible circumstances.
Taiwan is a similar story with the only difference being microchips which, if we were smart, should build ourselves. It would be cheaper than a war with China by 1000 times.
I thought Wertheim was way off in comparing Ukraine and 9/11, similar in kind but so different in scale. 9/11 was front of mind for years and years, mainstream Ukraine discourse fizzled after mere months. This interview highlighted my own internet poisoning bc I was so down with the chat about coalition building but “the US was justified to invade Afghanistan” 🙄 the fuck
Great convo. Especially agree with Danny’s point about integrating our backyard first. Why doesn’t anyone talk about Latin America!!
The back-and-forth about maximalist and pie-in-the-sky arguments was interesting. Though it was mostly an argument about arguments, Stephen’s reformist and Danny’s radical strategies reveal the different understandings behind each. To me, Stephen’s idea depends on the belief that the institutions that will carry out this winding down of America’s involvement are capable of doing so, both American and European - Danny’s that they are not. I don’t share Stephen’s belief, but his strategy is very easy to imagine, Danny’s not so much but I am in favor of it. I am but a simple man but I would like to understand some of the nuts and bolts of the MIC and what opportunities there are for dismantling it.
Re: 90's military interventions, don't forget Somalia. Not our finest hour militarily, yet highly romanticized and propagandized in film (Black Hawk Down).
I enjoyed this with Wertheim whom I'd read and seen before. Good guest.
No one has explained why Ukranian independence is critical to the national security of the US. A Ukraine dominated by Moscow would be just as irrelevant to our security as a free Ukraine. Wertheim says we should arm Ukraine under impossible circumstances.
Taiwan is a similar story with the only difference being microchips which, if we were smart, should build ourselves. It would be cheaper than a war with China by 1000 times.
I thought Wertheim was way off in comparing Ukraine and 9/11, similar in kind but so different in scale. 9/11 was front of mind for years and years, mainstream Ukraine discourse fizzled after mere months. This interview highlighted my own internet poisoning bc I was so down with the chat about coalition building but “the US was justified to invade Afghanistan” 🙄 the fuck